Talk:Yale (surname)

Elihu Yale not a Yale U Founder

Trying to follow guidelines here, having made a change and then had it reverted (anonymously).

Elihu Yale was the primary benefactor of Yale, not a founder. Yale itself and the Wikipedia article on Elihu Yale describe him that way, which is the accurate way. The article on Yale University names the founders by name, among which is not Elihu Yale.

The newly cited item is incorrect in its assertions or perhaps is just using the word “founded” in an outdated sense. (It’s also unreliably sloppy. For example, the work says that the Collegiate School was renamed Yale University in gratitude to Elihu Yale. It was not, rather being renamed Yale College. It wasn’t a university with the concomitant name change until the 19th century.) The anonymous reverter compares John Harvard, as does the cited work, which is apt but not in the way that person intended. As with Elihu Yale, Harvard University does not itself describe him as a founder, noting that he gave the money and books 35 years after the founding of the college. Similarly, Elihu Yale gave books 15 years after the college was founded; the college was not founded over the space of 15 years, it was founded once, and in 1701.

Yale School of Drama was recently renamed for David Geffen, which does not make him a founder. Triplingual (talk) 21:02, 28 October 2023 (UTC)

Hi, I've seen your edit about Yale University. When we go on John Harvard's page, he is listed as "a founder of Harvard College", which is why Elihu was listed as such. I think it would be more accurate to list him as "a founder of Yale College", rather than Yale University. Me personally I don't mind if he is kept as namesake but I don't think it very accurate, as most people would see him as a co-founder just as it is for John Harvard, as it is their names that became the brand. Also, the coat of arms of Yale College is the one of Elihu. Academia45 (talk) 22:55, 10 November 2023 (UTC)

Sorry I didn't see your message sooner! To me, your example is instructive, but not the same. The lead graf for John Harvard's article notes that he promised money as he lay dying, which money moved the people planning a college to change its name. The money, equal to the entire tax receipts of the colony at the time, as well as the books, changed the fundamental status of the school before it was established. Elihu Yale gave goods whose sale produced roughly the same amount that Harvard bequeathed, so yes it was a tidy sum. However, it didn't happen until the college had been established for 17 years. There's no question that he changed the course of Yale College's history (and consequently Yale University), but I don't think it's accurate to call him a founder. Someone within the past 20 years gave US$100 million to Yale and in part because of that the School of Music became tuition-free. That's a fundamental change to the School of Music, but that donor isn't a founder. It's at much greater remove in time than Elihu Yale's gift, but the fundamentals are the same.

Additionally, I'd point out that there's a substantive section in the John Harvard article about naming him as a founder. If such a section were added to the Yale University article, I'd have less ground to protest. As it stands, though, the Yale U article explicitly names the founders, among whom is not Elihu Yale: "Soon after, a group of ten Congregational ministers [enumerates them] met in the study of Reverend Samuel Russell, located in Branford, Connecticut, to donate their books to form the school's library. The group, led by James Pierpont, is now known as 'The Founders'."

Triplingual (talk) 14:22, 29 November 2023 (UTC)